America does not torture?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5395830/Abu-Ghraib-abuse-photos-show-rape.html

[quote]Abu Ghraib abuse photos 'show rape'Photographs of alleged prisoner abuse which Barack Obama is attempting to censor include images of apparent rape and sexual abuse, it has emerged. At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee.[/quote]

This article is very important. The reason it's important is in part because it shows what happened in Abu Ghraid and in part confirms what many of already knew about the allegations of rape. There have been allegations of rape for men, women, and children. Some sites a few years back showed video of rapes, though some videos may have been false, many others are believed to have been real.

This has been a disgusting and disgraceful time in American history and it's a time I am sure many would like to forget and sweep under the rug, but if you do that, doesn't that make you just as monstrous as Germany when they tried to cover up a lot of the Atrocities after WWII? They lied about a lot of what had happened and tried to cover it up.
I watched Obama stand before a group of Congress and declare that America does not torture.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N24444553.htm

[quote]"Living our values doesn't make us weaker, it makes us safer and it makes us stronger. And that is why I can stand here tonight and say without exception or equivocation that the United States of America does not torture," Obama said.[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8r23oHpgMJg

I watched them stand up and clap in regards to this speech. I think most people like and respect Obama, but to say that just hit me. When I saw the speech I was thinking does he mean right this moment as he is saying it? Does he mean they have never tortured? I couldn't help but think about all the Targeted Individuals men, women and children that were getting burnt in their homes on a daily basis. Who are being tortured in America and other nations. I could not help but think about what I knew about the prison Camps Abu Ghraid and Guantanamo Bay.

About the pictures I had seen and some of the things that had gone on their, but here was this President, someone who America listens to and I think trusts, saying that America does not torture. How do you reconcile that? I know most countries would rather keep their dark deeds hidden, it's the nature of the beast. It took many years for them to even admit to and then finally apologize for other dark times in American history such as the Tuskegee experiments that they conducted on Black men in the south, but eventually they did apologise.

Living your values makes safer and stronger, but apparently those values involve living in a state of denial and I don't see how that can make anyone stronger. I think it would make you far stronger to step up to the plate as a nation admit fully what had happened, no holds barred and then apologise for it, and then let the nation start the healing process. Saying that there will be no torture under your administration does not change the past, and failing the victims, and not letting their abuse and tortures be known, still hurts and I daresay tortures them on a
psychological level, the same way not dealing with slavery affected the America psyche for years down the line.

Germany is in many ways just now starting to recover from their Hitler time and have pride and love again for what Germany was, I just saw and article about that and I think it's good, because they have finally dealt with and acknowledged some of what happened during that time period.

What would the world be like in America now if people denied Slavery happened or said that it was not that bad? Well many Americans are still psychologically grappling with the legacy that left behind and when people try to brush it under the carpet, some get upset and offended, well is denying or not fully confronting the events of the last several years any better? Isn't it just as offensive to deny the extent to which torture happened? To try to brush it under the carpet?
I think America needs to heal for what happened, but I don't think America will heal by underplaying and denying what when on, just like slavery or any of your other dark past, you have to find a way as a nation to step up to the plate, take ownership and acknowledge what happened, then apologize and only then can you truly start to heal as a nation.

Most would like to forget what happened, but I don't think that will make you stronger or better in the long run, it's not a healing or a healthy mentality to have. After 9-11 you felt hurt, violated and so you lashed back, even though Iraq was not the enemy, you did what you thought would make you feel safe, but in the end violations were committed, grievous violations and to heal, that has to at some point in the American psyche has to be dealt with.

Can you keep a secret? Everyone else can.

Can you keep a secret?

Of course you can. If you can have hundreds of thousands of people taking part in some Stasi like State program and keeping their mouths shut, then you can get people to keep quite about just about anything.

People always say that if 9-11 happened and it was done by the US government, someone would have said something or it would have been in the papers, but why would it be?
I have been here in the world for awhile, and did I know anything about these suburban spy programs? No. You have millions of people in these types of programs around the world, keeping the secret, so then why does anyone think someone would spill the beans about 9/11 if they knew?

Compared to 9/11 these spy programs are small fry. If people can keep their mouths shut about these programs, then the trusted ones who would have been let in on the 9/11 secret, would keep that a secret for sure.

I mean if peoples friends, family, etc can all be made to keep their mouths shut for fear of the state over something like a community spy program, then you bet your assets they can be made to keep quite about 9/11, same with our media, etc.

The only thing you can do about 9/11 is take a look at the inconsequential of that time period, that add up to a big consequential, like who cancelled flights, who's flights left days earlier than planned to avoid flying on 9/11

An aeroplane fire is allegedly strong enough and destructive enough to destroy all the people on board, take down 3 buildings, but the wreckage from that leaves the passport of the sleeper terrorist agents in tack? Yeah I like fairy tales as much as the next person, but even I would have to ask some questions about this fairy tale, and the crappy ending that went with it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gingerbread_(Buffy_episode)

These same supposed terrorists who allegedly knew they were not coming back, still packed suitcases, that they left in parked cars for people to conviently find.

People can be lied to, but only if they want to be. I knew there was something going on, I knew that everyone around me were taking part in something. I thought it was something simple, I never dreamed something like this could be going on in the world, much less in my world, and happening to me, but it was. I could never have believed that so many people could keep their mouths shut about something so relevant and encompassing, that was important for me to know, for so long but they did, remorselessly.

It was my own need and perseverance and desire to learn the truth that finally lead me to a place where I have some of the facts about the unbelievable stuff that was happening in my life, that so many people knew about but me. I knew I would have to prepare myself for some betrayal when the truth finally came out, how much I never knew.

If you want to know the truth, you can find it, but be prepared to be hurt, and to feel betrayed, and you might not like what you find, but no one ever said the truth would be pretty. Ever hear that saying, the truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable. Well the truth is, it might set you free, but it might continue to make you miserable.

People can keep secrets, don't fool yourselves, and sometimes it's the people you think you should be able to trust the most, those are the ones that betray you, but you know what if you can deal with that and get past it, the truth is there in all it's refined glory.

Can you keep a secret? Everyone else sure can. If you want the truth about anything, you are going to have to go and find it out for yourself, and many people are not going to make it easy for you. It can be done though.

Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib concentration camps.

Why does no one talk about this? I guess because the United States is the most powerful government on the face of the planet, no one takes the time to mention the fact that they have 2 active concentration camps for men and woman who were housed there.

Just to be clear these are concentration camps.

http://www.answers.com/concentration+camp&r=67Quote:n.A camp where civilians, enemy aliens, political prisoners, and sometimes prisoners of war are detained and confined,
typically under harsh conditions.A place or situation characterized by extremely harsh conditions.[/quote]

http://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/timeline/camps.htm
Quote:Camps were an essential part of the Nazis' systematic oppression and mass murder of Jews, political adversaries, and others considered socially and racially undesirable. There were concentration camps, forced labor camps, extermination or death camps, transit camps, and prisoner-of-war camps. The living conditions of all camps were brutal.

http://www.cageprisoners.com/articles.php?id=3690
Some who are being tortured, beaten, raped, killed, or driven to suicide. The health conditions are horrific. The world waits, watches and just let's it continue.

Why don't these things get talked about?

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/reich.html
People will look back and say these were horrible things, and there will be law suits and eventually some lame government apology that will mean little or next to nothing, and it will be the same bs. We did what we had to do, we are different now.

These things could never happen again. You know what, it is happening again. We have these camps again, but no one talks about it.

http://www.wakeupfromyourslumber.com/node/531
Innocent men and woman were been picked up and forced into these camps. Some were sold into these camps. Some might be guilty but do we know? No because they have not been charged with anything, how can you be truly guilty, if you have not been charged with anything? They have had no charges laid against them, but they have just been placed in darkness and hell by one of the most powerful governments in the world.

The United Nations is doing nothing, and I mean nothing. If any other country on the planet and done this to other human beings, there would be sanctions and censure, but there is nothing.

They lie in hell, darkness and misery, without knowing what they are being charged with, without access to a lawyer, without knowing when and if they will ever get out of those hells.

I always wonder how things like this could happen. How could the German people let this happen to the Jews, how could they have done that?

Why did we intern the Japanese during WWII?

Why didn't the world step in sooner?

Why didn't people protest?

And now I know why. Because I am living in such a time, and it's unbelievable. We sit back and we do this to others, and our excuse is that someone hit us first, just like Hitlers excuse with the reichstag fire.

http://dmorgan.web.wesleyan.edu/materials/weimar.htm

Quote:This bill, which receives the necessary two-thirds majority with the aid of the Center Party, grants full legislative powers to the cabinet without requiring the assent of the Reichstag. It is the formal basis of Hitler’s power for the remainder of the Third Reich.

Because they told themselves that these people were bad, that they were destroying the country, that they were the heart of what was wrong and that by careening them into these camps, it was for the safety of everyone else. They spread lies and propaganda, and dehumanised them.

History looked back in condemnation, but why can we not stem the tide and condemn this? Why can we not get past our fears, and stupidity long enough to see that what we are doing is wrong, we are now becoming the monsters, that we seek to protect ourselves from? Is our fear so blind that we can not see what we are doing to others?

9/11 and Peal harbour were both horrible events and they gave us the means, motive and opportunity to do a lot of really unpleasant things to others, that we should realise that we should not be doing, but we make excuses, and let things happen to others that we should not.

We preach democracy and what we really mean is democracy for us, but not for others. We invade others countries and occupy them, for illicit false reasons. Yet there are no sanctions, there is no true censor.

The world sits by and watches as this happens again. It not the same numbers as the German concentration camps, I don't know if the numbers come close to the Japanese internment camps, but it's the same actions that we will be apologizing for in the future, but it will be very little and it will be to even less avail. You can't give back a life that you have destroyed.

We tell ourselves that we are doing this to guarantee ourselves and our children's security and protection, but the world has not become a safer place by these actions, it's become less safe if anything. No one calls the camps what they are.

I guess there were sane voices in every time period, ones that saw and recognised the evils of their times. The Germans who hid the Jews, till the evil could pass.

The people who did not go along with interning the Japanese, or who spoke out against it. However these voices are always in short supply during these time periods, or they are being shut down or shut up. That should not be the case.

I wish that these evil times would pass, I wish people would wake up and realise that we are not making the world a safer place, and we will not be until we practice what we preach. It's the biggest hypocrisy, to say that you are a democratic society and that you practice democracy, but then you deny it to others.

WWII I always asked myself. Why didn't the world step in sooner? Now I know why.