Hypothetical

The following is reposted by request. It 's a record of a forum conversation conducted some months ago regarding gang stalking/Covert Investigations that has now been removed. The following was a "hypothetical conversation" between GS, and BB another poster.

BB-
1. I was talking to a friend about all the posts concerning Gang Stalking and community policing, and we came up with these things that we think may help counter the stalking.
2. (Intended For entertainment purposes only, and on the assumption such a thing as Gang Stalking exists of course, so don’t take any of this seriously).
He he he he.
3. Have friends sign up for community policing, so you have some one on the inside.
4. Walk your block, any were you can have a good vantage point of the area, is were they will be, so if you see some one there, it will probably be them. (Identifying, them is half the battle).
5. Bug your own car, in case they set you up, use voice or sound activated tape recorders when ever you can, like in your home. If some one comes in while you are out, you now have a voice. Carry one under your shirt.
6. Start your own data base; always have a camera or video with you ALLWAYS. Record possible faces and cars. (You could say you are making a movie or you are an artist as a reason for always being seen taking pictures of cars and people).
7. Lead them to areas were you know there is not much traffic or people, have a friend hide with a video cam, to catch the car plates and the people in the cares if he/she can.
8. (Call the friend from a pay phone).
9. If you are set up, take as many of them to jail with you as you can (set them up, he he he just kidding). If you can’t figure who set them on you, them implicate your known enemies, as drug dealers or rats or other. If you go down when they go through your computer or diary, and there is the names of the locals you think may be involved; now they are in the hot seat to.
10. Get a friend to call and find out were they meet and collect as much info as possible.
11. Have your lawyer ask if the accuser, or accusers, are, or have ever been, a part of community policing, and if they have ever been told to follow or monitor you, then lead to how often and how many people involved. (to show stalking).
12. Freedom of information form can be filled out by your lawyer, ask to see if the local police have ever had you under surveillance, for how long, how many involved, and if community policing was used. And why.
13. Place small peaces of paper on top of your door when you close it or tie a hair across it, or place a small breakable fuse under door mats when you leave to see if they have been disturbed when you get back home.
14. Spread pepper to through dogs of from smelling around or in your home, the basement in particular.
15. Keep a diary, and make burn CDs of all video and pictures you have of them. Make lots of copies, and mail or email them to your self or friends to keep.
16. Have more than one email address.
17. When possible have other people use you computer, (with in reason), if anything is planted by the stalkers now you are not the only one that has used it.
18. Call work (payphone) take the occasional impromptu long drive late Sunday.
You don’t have to go to work they do, and they (probably as many as four cars) will all have to pay gas. (Gets expensive for volunteers).
19. Bike up one way streets, (just kidding that is eligal and dangerous, dont do it, he he he) this annoys them when they are in cars, or take your bike in the trunk then pull over lock your car then bike.
20. When they stalk you in cars they will run a box type pattern, two or three will get in front of you and then one will split to the left and right to monitor if you turn right or left one will stay in front and one will be behind you by a few blocks. You are now boxed in no matter what direction you turn. Exhaust them and there gas and resources by walking or driving a few docks in one direction then go back then reverse it, you travel less than they do they spend money.
21. When you see one of them approach them, and ask for the time, or start a conversation there friends will gather, but they are not supposed to talk to you as they may find out you are innocent and this will cause them to question there superiors, and there operation could be jeopardized.
22. If they cause you to loose your job, then you have complete control over the hours you sleep and were you go, make them follow you at three or four in the morning then switch your sleeping pattern.
23. Condition them to expect certain behavior (walk at the same time every day, go to the same coffee shop), then when you need to you can throw them a curve.
24. Be around people as much as possible.
25. Get a police background check done on your self, it costs about $25.00 then when it comes back clear use it to try to join community policing, (now they cant say they did not know you were innocent and not a criminal, in court this is a good tool).
26. Have friends get the police check done and have them join community policing, so you have inside information to confirm you are being stalked.
27. Do volunteer work in the community to improve you image and to cause the stalkers to doubt why they are stalking someone that is helping the community. And to be around people and to stay sane.
28. Don’t be a victim; use your imagination to set them up and to expose them. Dont assume there is no counter to Gang Stalking, if it was invented by man it can be broken or counterd by man.
Don’t take any of this seriously it is all hypothetical and not intended as advise of any kind. As we all know Gang Stalking does not exist. He he he he.


GS-
Thank you for the hypothetical suggestions.
Yeah well apparently gang stalking does not exist, from what I can see it was set up as disinformation to lead targets astray from these stupid insidious Cointelpro type investigations that are happening to innocent people in society.
They threw in just enough truth to make it feasable, so that when targets go to the police, who fully know what's happening, and start complaining about gang stalking, they get their butt's kicked, or get termed crazy, or whatever.

You have a covert investigation, where there people friends, families, employers, landlords etc, are contacted and told God know's what about these people, and then they get asked to spy on you. Also with the community civilian snitches, who use their little Stasi signal to communicate. (How appropriate.)

If I had known when this junk first began that that was what was going on, I could have gone straight to a lawyer, and said hey look, this is what seems to be going on, can you do anything? Instead I had to spend months looking into this, to try to figure out what is happening to the targets.

People like David Lawson who wrote terrorist stalking in America are either government agents spreading disinfo, or just really stupid. Considering the term gang stalking did not come along until after his first book, and now they seem to be trying to fade out the term it's so irritating.
From what I read about Kilmeer Gill, you know that Montreal shooter, it sounds like he might have been under watch for over 6 years. Things that were written in his blog, sound like this, and if that's the case, they might have driven him to a state where he was capable of hurting those people. I think the actions of these covert investigation are criminal themselves. Just like Cointelpro was criminal and conducted by the government, it's the same thing, but now they are using civilian spies to help ruin the lives of innocent people.

Do you know how many people are taking part in this, who don't know the harm they are doing to others, or the roles they are really playing? I think that the media have a responsibillity to report this stuff, and to do investigative documentaries about this stuff, but just like during the McCarthy era, they won't, and more innocent people will just get destroyed. It saddens me to realise that we are once again in such at time period.

With people trying to sensor this information. It really makes me very angry, that someone would censor information on something that is affecting innocent people. People have a right to know, and they trust the media to tell them. http://www.thestar.com/printArticle/201696
At least some of the truth is getting through, but it's a shame that more media people are not stepping up to the plate and trying to do the right thing. Whatever that is in our new survellence, snitch society, where everyone monitors everyone else.

BB-
What you say about Kilmeer Gill sounds possible, he did say he wanted to get away but that they wouldn’t let him, or something like that.
He sounded like he could have been Gang Stalked to the breaking point.
I don’t understand why people don’t legislate for:
1. Them to have identification displayed that could be easily seen from a distance for the safety of the people they follow and assume guilty, and for the safety of the general public, and the volunteers them self’s.
2. I am asking what safeguards are in place for the public, to show there is no abuse of power by the COPP type programs.
3. What is in place to stop them (COPP) targeting Natives or others, based on a bias or the word of someone with a grudge or even on the word of a cop.
4. Where are the neutral third parties and the transparency for the public to observe?
And question and watch them at will.
5. Where or at what point are the people targeted allowed to see the evidence against them and to disprove it to the COPP, Gang Stalkers?
6. What is the Government doing to be held accountable for the safety of the citizens on patrol volunteers, and the people they may follow, or Stalk, on behalf of the police (Hypothetical example).
7. Why are there no limits to the length of Stalking time to avoided disasters? Kilmeer Gill as possible example you have given. If the police have to have programs like COPP to Stalk or harass people for them then there should be a limit of two weeks or months. After that the police should do there own work, or have CSIS do it for them.

Have the COPP programs set them selves up as judge, jury, and executioner?
Inventing evidence when none is there to justify there existence?
The COPP programs volunteers would not be told that they are harassing innocent people, and most would not question there authority figures. They would simply be unaware that what they are being asked to do, is legal (hence the need for no identification on cars or persons).
Nor would they need to know they could be the cause of someone snapping or committing suicide, as you saw this is a real possibility. I guess it would all depend on how fanatical there leader is. All this is a possibility, so what precautions are in place?

And the problem comes when they start stalking people that are not criminals, but that may have been out spoken either against police or government or other groups.
Even a good person can be painted as a criminal when they (COPP programs) choose to use these tactics, with police backing.

I am not saying that this is the case, but Is this Russia are they the COPP programs against people having the right to answer to what ever COPP has accused them of, that may have caused the Gang Stalking in the first place?

What safeguards are in place by the Government for the public, to show there is no abuse of power by the COPP programs?
It they were to “gang stalk” people on behalf of the police or other force (just an example you understand).

I would think it would be dangerous to them, as most criminals are a little paranoid to begin with. Having them (alleged criminals) “gang stalked” on behalf of the police, would place them the citizens on patrol in danger, as they may be mistaken for other criminals or gang members.
Are these people required by the Government to wear easily seen identification on there cars and persons at all times?

Have the police ever gotten the citizens on patrol to follow or “Gang Stalk” people under a presumption of guilt rather than actual guilt?

After all the RCMP fiascos can we afford not to ask these questions and have safe guards put in place?

All of this is just wild speculation and rumor of course.

Why has no one tried to get inside there groups and expose them?

Why has no one tried to write a book outlining some of there tactics. And measures to counter there tactics (it would be a hell of a money maker).

All of this is just wild speculation and rumor of course, based on the assumption that such a thing as Gang Stalking by police sponsored vigilante type groups exists.

GS- Here is some more information on Gill and why I think he really was a target of this practice, and I think this is what lead to the shooting in Montreal. This is why I think what I do, and this is why I would like to see more media information about this.
http://www.thetrenchcoat.com/archives/1487-The-blogroll-on-Kimveer-Gill.html

For those with a short memory you might remember that Kimveer Gill was the young Montreal man who went on a shooting spree several months ago killing at least 1 person and wounding at least a dozen others.

Most people just wrote him off as a nut case who was into video games and mixed up fantasy with reality, a goth who hated society. For those of us who stopped to read some of his postings to gain clues to what might have happened, there is an angle that has not been discussed, that has not been talked about.

Here are some of his blog postings that I found really interesting.
Dated September 12, 2006

[quote]Stop Bullying
It?s not only the bully?s fault you know!!
It?s the teachers and principals fault for turning a blind eye, just cuz it?s not their job. You *uckers are pathetic.
It?s the police?s fault for not doing anything when people conplain (oops, my mistake, the cops are corrupt sons of whores, so it?s not like they can do anything about it.)
*UCK THE POLICE
It?s society?s fault for acting like it?s normal for people to be assholes to each other. Society disgusts me.
It?s everyone?s fault for being so apathetic towards *ucking everything that doesn?t affect them personally. *UCK YOU SOCIETY.
[/quote]

It sounds like his bullying, which is what he called it, might have involved trying to get the police to do something, but it sounds like they not only did not do anything about the bullying, they also he ends with calling them corrupt. Why?

Not so outside the realm of what you might find in many other bullying cases, but here is something that is particularly interesting.

[quote]I wonder why my household has been under surveillance by law enforcement for 6 years now? Makes no sense to me!!
Oh, you?re wondering how I know?
lol
Bet you little monkeys are
Hey, assholes!!
Everything everyone says or does against me is shown to me in my dreams, I see everything. You *ucking monkeys.
God, you humans are so inferior.
[/quote]


The above is taken from the trench coat site, where they have his blog postings. Now the last post was the one I found the most interesting, when doing research on this. Trying to understand if in fact the actions of others, did in part lead to the situation in Montreal, and if so what can be done to prevent it and avoid it in future.

I am wondering what guidelines there are in place for things like this, but after reading about Mahar Arar and the bs the CSIS and RCMP pulled, I realized there is no one moral at the gate. I mean they realised the man was innocent and did nothing to change the perception of his guilt and were willing to let him rot in some country where he was being tortured, and part of why he was on some list had more to do with who he had associated with in the past.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/arar/

[quote]Zaccardelli says he first learned that the Mounties had passed erroneous information about Arar on to U.S authorities after a public inquiry report was released by Justice Dennis O'Connor in the fall of 2006. In September that year, Zaccardelli told a parliamentary committee that he had learned of the RCMP's mistake shortly after Arar's deportation to Syria in 2002. [/quote]

From what I understand after ralising that the RCMP was corrupt, they created CSIS only to have the same corruption happen all over again.

They knew they had passed on false information and did nothing to correct it, if anything they did the opposite. These are the people we are suppose to trust, to protect us and the rights of innocent citizens.

[quote]RCMP Commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli breaks more than a week of silence on Maher Arar's ordeal, apologizing for the "nightmare" that arose when the Mounties wrongly linked him to terrorism. Speaking before the House of Commons security committee, Zaccardelli denies that the government muzzled him from speaking earlier on the case and insists he will not step down as commissioner over the affair.
Several critics have called for Zaccardelli's resignation following the revelation of the RCMP's blunders, detailed in O'Connor's report on the investigation.
[/quote]

The same thing happens in these covert investigations. I can see why they are opened in secret to an extent, but based on extensive conversations with people that are being harassed in this way, there is a lot being done to set them up so that they can look and come across as crazy. Wither it's them being batted in public, so they can have an angry outburst, to them having their home entered and stuff moved around, or other small things that make them sound collectively crazy it's the same thing, and there is seemingly no reason for it.

The other thing is some of these people are whistle-blowers, minorities, and single woman, people that are marginalized or independent, the type that for whatever reason the government has decided to go after. There are people that I have talked to that have said that this has been going on for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years. How inefficient would you have to be, that you need 20 years to determine if someone is a criminal, crazy, terrorist, whatever lie you are making up? Honestly.

There does not seem to be any moral force governing this, and from what I can see, have observed, and confirmed with others, the police are fully corporation with making these people sound like they are crazy when they go to the police. Eg. The police are aware of these eyes and ears programs, when I spoke to one office he had in his division 5 reports of stalking of this specific nature. The reports were apparently all from single females, and yet he was writing them off as paranoid. (These community officers know about this program, because they are the ones who are in charge of it for the various divisions, just to give you an idea.)

From what I can see it seems that a large part of society is going along with the snitching and civilian spying, but not necessarily the brightest part of society, or the cleanest. What I mean is, I have seen some people that I am pretty sure are criminal elements, who acting as civilian spies, and I am so grossed out by that. I mean snitches will sell their mothers out for money, why not innocent people?

Since this is being used to target certain primary groups, what you have said about this being used as a revenge service has a lot of merit. To this date, there is no clear guideline that I have been able to find to the length of time a covert investigation can be ongoing for, the guidelines for incidents getting reported. Eg. I mentioned targets being set up by some of these snitches/civilian spies.

[quote]1. Them to have identification displayed that could be easily seen from a distance for the safety of the people they follow and assume guilty, and for the safety of the general public, and the volunteers them self’s.
2. I am asking what safeguards are in place for the public, to show there is no abuse of power by the COPP type programs.
3. What is in place to stop them (COPP) targeting Natives or others, based on a bias or the word of someone with a grudge or even on the word of a cop.
4. Where are the neutral third parties and the transparency for the public to observe?
And question and watch them at will.
5. Where or at what point are the people targeted allowed to see the evidence against them and to disprove it to the COPP, Gang Stalkers?
6. What is the Government doing to be held accountable for the safety of the citizens on patrol volunteers, and the people they may follow, or Stalk, on behalf of the police (Hypothetical example).
7. Why are there no limits to the length of Stalking time to avoided disasters? Kilmeer Gill as possible example you have given. If the police have to have programs like COPP to Stalk or harass people for them then there should be a limit of two weeks or months. After that the police should do there own work, or have CSIS do it for them.
[/quote]

1. See they are suppose to be just average citizens while out on the road, they act as the eyes and ears of society, so for the snitching purpose of this, giving them identification would not work. The other problem is because there is no id, anyone and I do mean anyone can take advantage of this. If I am aware of this, who else is? Skin heads, KKK, can you imagine them baiting a target, then several of their friends reporting the incident of the crazy target? Hitlers Brown Coats, use to do this to the Jews in WWII so they could make them act out and get arrested, and now we have this in our society.

2. There are no safeguards from what I can see, because if the target of this can not give their feedback or input, then it's completely bogus. Eg. Even when targets file police reports, the police reports are often not filed, or purposely twisted around to make the target look crazy. Also with the baiting, the target never get's to explain why they got angry or yelled at someone. Guilty because some corrupt people say so, and the target get's no input, and from what I can see, there are people purposely baiting targets, with the blessing of the people in charge. (From what I can see.)

3. There is nothing to stop them, and based on who is getting targeted, it looks like they are one step ahead of you with choosing whom to target. Society already has the police racial profiling people this is just one more way for them to do it and long term, until someones life is destroyed. There is no time line for these investigations.

4. Not only that, but if you suspect you are under investigation, there is no place to go, and no party to turn to. Amnesty will not help with this, and most lawyers can not discuss this, because how many have also agreed to be the eyes and ears of the state? So targets are left with no resources to clear their names. And since the media will also do nothing to help, most don't know what exactly is happening to them.

5. They are never allowed to see the evidence against them. Just like Guantanamo Bay, So there could be tons of erroneous bs, and all the target know is maybe they can't get an apartment, or find a job, or people are mean or rude to them, but they have no idea why. The ultimate way to black ball and black list someone, and where is the media to help them? Nowhere.

6. I don't know about that, but if Gill was a target of this, then they should be charged equally with the death of that girl. You can not do something so inhuman to someone and then wonder at the outcome. We now recognise this in bullying and the connection to school shootings. We need to acknowledge this as well. I think the thing with these investigations is that some targets will kill themselves, others, go to jail, become homeless, or be institutionalised, and if only a small percentage is damaged every year, it does not appear that bad.

Videos: Cointelpro.
1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si1bHa45u18
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJqMcafwFJ8
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN9TZDL4WqI
4. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbMsOGWN_ts
7. Because from the research that I have been able to find, and from talking to others, just like
with Cointelpro investigations, the goal is to destroy the target. They did this to Martin Luther King Jr. People have to understand that governments do bad things. If the media would do their jobs, then this would be understood.

They tried to destroy that man, and when that failed, they targeted him for termination, and a month later he was assassinated.
http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/churchfinalreportIIIb.htm

[quote]Have the COPP programs set them selves up as judge, jury, and executioner? Inventing evidence when none is there to justify there existence? [/quote]

I think the people running this have set themselves up to be just that, since there is no input from the target. How in a democratic society can you be declared guilty without seeing the evidence against you, and have you life so interfered with. I mean these people will contact everyone in a targets life with the same lies, and ask or force them to go along with the spying. Every store a target goes into, they are exposed as someone who needs watching wither it's true or not.

Exactly. Inventing evidence to justify their existence. If they can show that we have a bunch of unstable, criminal, terrorist people in society, then it's funding for them. It's reason for their existence. There is no one saying hey wait a second, how do we know it's true? Cointelpro all over again.

[quote]The COPP programs volunteers would not be told that they are harassing innocent people, and most would not question there authority figures. They would simply be unaware that what they are being asked to do, is legal (hence the need for no identification on cars or persons).

Nor would they need to know they could be the cause of someone snapping or committing suicide, as you saw this is a real possibility. I guess it would all depend on how fanatical there leader is. All this is a possibility, so what precautions are in place?
[/quote]

Exactly. Then you get a term like gang stalking and it just confuses things. Eg. The target goes looking for answers and via the term gang stalking, they are told it's these evil vigilante types that are committing this stuff. They know themselves to be innocent so of course they believe that it's vigilantes.

Meanwhile the people doing the stalking, sorry civilian spying, see about 15 minutes of the targets life. So they really do believe they are stalking someone who is crazy, a criminal, danger to society, whatever lie they have been told. A lot of them are just trying to be good citizens.
So you have two world's colliding. The target who is followed and harassed every freaking day gets it. They feel victimized, and they have no place to turn for help or assistance. They become a creature with their back to the wall, most will eventually come out fighting.

The civilian spies might be told to jiggle keys at someone every time the subway announcement is read out, while someone else none partial observes the behaviour. (This is how it's suppose to be neutral and none partial, and fair.) What they don't see, is the little trouble maker who tried to shove the keys in someones face, and upset them just 10 minutes later. Thus they get angry because they are acutely aware that they are being harassed and they don't like it.

So from the targets point of view they are getting harassed, from the person who is observing this, the target is acting irrational. Cause they don't see the people who tried to trip the target, while the other jangled keys in front of them yesterday. Etc. This goes on, and they take the input of the person doing the observation and the civilian spies. So it all looks neutral. I mean 7 civilian spies who don't know the target are not going to make up a lie right? If they don't have the whole picture, then yes that is what they are doing inadvertently, and it's shame. A lot of the civilian spies are not bad people. They think they are helping the country.

I mean they don't any better. They are asked to observe someone for 15 minutes, they see them flipping out, they file a report, and they never ask or question the events that came before it.

[quote]And the problem comes when they start stalking people that are not criminals, but that may have been out spoken either against police or government or other groups.
Even a good person can be painted as a criminal when they (COPP programs) choose to use these tactics, with police backing.
I am not saying that this is the case, but Is this Russia are they the COPP programs against people having the right to answer to what ever COPP has accused them of, that may have caused the Gang Stalking in the first place? [/quote]

In Russia they used this on activists and dissidents all the time to make them look mentally ill, so they could lock them away.

The other problem is they are using criminal elements to be the extra set of eyes and ears. So you have low lives, also helping to stalk innocent people. Clearly I don't have to paint this picture for you.

[quote]What safeguards are in place by the Government for the public, to show there is no abuse of power by the COPP programs? [/quote]

In the research that I have done over the last 10 months I have found nothing. The police will not talk about the investigations or how someone get's off the list. (I have been able to get that far, but stalled with the investigations unit.) The RCMP have a complaint process, but it's for a complaint against a specific agent or person.

Since targets don't have names, or a clear info about which division is doing what, who is heading stuff up, it's really hard. Also since the police are lying about this, it's almost impossible. Very few will admit to the program and very few will try to do anything to help targets. Most will flat out lie and say there is no such thing. (Harder for them, since the article came out, but they do still try.)

[quote]Have the police ever gotten the citizens on patrol to follow or “Gang Stalk” people under a presumption of guilt rather than actual guilt?
[/quote]

I think we all know the answer to this question. You have some really good questions, and you understand this really well. Hypothetically of course.

[quote]After all the RCMP fiascos can we afford not to ask these questions and have safe guards put in place?
[/quote]

No the truth is, we can not afford to, but yet we do anyways.

[quote]Why has no one tried to get inside there groups and expose them?
Why has no one tried to write a book outlining some of there tactics. And measures to counter there tactics (it would be a hell of a money maker).
[/quote]

The problem is as a target, you will not be asked to be a civilian spy, so you have to use those investigative journalist skills to find out any details.

Phones bugged, acquaintances all of them contacted, so they are all sworn to secrecy, and most do keep their mouths shut. Only a few targets have been lucky enough to have good friends clue them in.

I agree with the book idea, but because of what David Lawson did with his book, it might make targets look questionable.

[quote]Stalking by police sponsored vigilante type groups exists.[/quote]

Remember they don't call it state sponsored stalking. They call it being an extra set of eyes and ears. It's so nice the PC terms being used. I guess to call it the means of driving your fellow citizens to suicide, mass slaughter, institutionalization, jail, or homelessness, just does not have the same ring to it.

Corrupt to the core.

Trying to get my police report updated still.

The nice thing about the police here in this city is that if you file a complaint with them, they get to investigate themselves. That's right. If you so happen to be unfortunate enough to cross paths with the police and they mess you over, and you file a report, it goes to an independent body who then forward the complaint to the police who then investigate themselves, and send it back to the independent body who then forward it to you. Isn't that nice? The mob should have such a system in place.

Ok here is a recap for all those who are not familiar with my situation.
Found out that I was being followed around the city last July, after about 6-7 years of constant harassment, found out that this was coordinated and set up in such as way as to see me destroyed.

I would later find out that this is a covert Cointelpro type investigation that is being orchestrated by the those in authority.

Before that I found the term online called gang stalking, which at the time explained these events, but tried to pass the events off on vigilante groups. Turns out gang stalking is more than likely a disinformation term coined to throw people off about what was happening to them, more importantly who it was being done by.

What is happening to me is similar to the movie lives of others where an innocent person is placed under covert investigation, and the state tries to ruin them by degrees. I am not alone in my predicament, this is happening to many others in various other parts of the country, and the world.

This is my saga thus far.

-December 2006.

After many months of researching gang stalking and talking to others who had tried to file police reports about the same thing, I was told that the best way to file the report was in person.
-I was told that to try to do it in writing, and to get a copy of the police report and a reference number after the police report was filed.

-Filed a police report regarding the covert harassment that was being experienced.
-My first attempt to file the report was done in person with an officer. He refused to let me drop off the notes that I had and said that notes had to be taken, and he did not give me a report number. Asked when I would hear back about the report the officer advised that it might not happen.

*Knowing what I know now. I would say the first mistake was going to the police. When this is happening to you, go to a lawyer first, explain what you think is happening and then see what they think you should file in the report. The trick there is trying to find a good lawyer who will touch it. The other thing that lawyers have advised is hire a private investigator, but many targets have spent time and money on this road with no avail. Many of these PI are themselves helping out with these eyes and ears programs and so again conflict of interest. Finding a honest or decent person who is aware of what is going on and who does not have a conflict of interest, or vested interest is hard.

-So after finding out that the report was not filed I attempted to file the report again, and they insisted on doing it over the phone. I would later find out why.

-After I filed the report and no one got back to me. I called and spoke to an officer John Poirpoint at 13th division. The same officer who had five complaints of the same stalking for his area. (The other complainants all being single females, living by themselves.) I asked why the report was not being investigated? He said he would have to call me back on Monday. Never heard back, tried to follow up, couldn't get a hold of him.

Eventually I did get a copy of the police report that I filed. Office Badge #3447 filed a chop job report. Many of the things I explained to hear and the way she wrote them, miswrote them, or just inserted her own info, made the report sound crazy.

Eg. I advised officer Brooker that there was heat coming from the floor below me, and it was causing vibrations. I advised that I had spoken to an electrician, who thought it might be transponders or something like that. I did advise her that my upstairs neighbour seems to know where I am at all times in my apartment, as if I was being tracked.

She wrote in the report that

(I think magnets are being used to track my movements.)
Didn't mention magnets to her. There are several other examples where she decided to insert, not insert, or just insert her own stuff. Very nice the things our officers get up to.
Today.- So since that time realising that they are corrupt, I have just been speaking to community leaders, other targets, lawyers, other activists that are being harassed this way, and of course the police.

I did have some luck about a month back. I spoke to one officer who I advised what was happening and wanted to know if I could get off the list. He advised that he did not think that I could get off the list, but he would let me speak to the investigations unit. He is the most success that I have had so far. Acknowledged that citizens are being used to track people, and that he didn't think that there was a way off the list.

The person he transferred me to was not so helpful. He said he didn't know what I was talking about. So I read him the article that came out in the paper, and that shut him up with the denials, but he quickly got me off the phone with he didn't think there was anything he could do to help. That was the police investigations unit.

-Today I tried to follow up on some information I dropped off last week.
Memory refresher. During my talks and chit chats with the police, some helpful some not, I discovered that they had a report of some kind showing up that referred to an arrest for a fraud from several years ago.

What had happened was I was stopped on the street. I was told that I fit the description of someone who was passing out fake bills in the area. (I would later learn that the person was about 20 years older, looked nothing like me, but had the same color coat. Yeah fit the description.) Anyways officers Redman and Braudrey decided to file a report and apparently the way the report comes up in the system the first thing it shows is an arrest for fraud under. Apparently if you actually read the report or pull it up it does show that I was questioned, released. However that is not the first thing that shows up when they pull my name and date of birth.

That was interesting to learn. Knowing more about how these set up work for targets, I really am wondering more and more about that incident.
Anyways today, the run around.

-Called the records division at head quarters to find out how things were going with getting my records updated. I was told that she had nothing there, but to check back tomorrow. Fair enough. The person who answered the phone, was nice and rather helpful.
-Next call. I was transferred to the central ARU regarding the police report that was filed back in December.

(When I tried to drop the records off at the station, head quarters, and tried to get a confirmation that my records had been dropped off, it was refused. The office an officer K. Mohammed advised that he would give me no confirmation that the files had been dropped off, and that he should not even have provided me with an envelope to drop off the files. I thought yes, finally a company with even worst customer service than bell Internet. I was amazed. He also said there was no guarantee that my letters would get to their destinations. I just smiled and said that that in an office with so many police officers I would be surprised if it did not, and he said then I should not even have bothered asking for a reference. (To serve and protect. Yeah.)

-Oh a good note, there was a female officer who was nice and said I could reference her, that I did drop two pieces of correspondences off.

Anyhoo.

Central ARU.

-Spoke to an officer, who was helpful, (maybe)? He said that he did not have the files and that there was no update. (Oh side note. When I spoke to the records room, she seemed to know who I was, cause she asked if it was the records that had been dropped off at the front desk.)
Anyways he said that the records had not been updated, and that I should go back to the original department to get the records updated.

-I spoke to 13th division. What an unpleasant and unhelpful officer she was. The call was almost like, who is on first, no what's on second. It was so irritating. She hung up. But she left me with the impression that I could file the report over the phone, or drop off the records there, or do whatever the heck I felt like doing.

-Then called my own division, cause remember I had to move and leave my apartment that I loved due to the harassment and the electronic harassment which was killing skin cells. While the police sat back, knew what was going on and did nothing.

Anyways I called a police officer form a different division, and I was about to hang up cause it
was the wrong division, but he seemed determined to help so I spoke to him. (Helpful officers are so rare and hard to find, that I am not about to pass one up.)

He pulled up my file and asked if I was calling about my report from February regarding threatening mail. Now remember that my last contact with them was around December except for the noise harassment incident which was filed shortly after that. To my knowledge, unless this report was that, which I don't think so. There is some report that was filed in February, not by me, about threatening mail. Apparently this report was investigated.

My reports are not being investigated, but this report, which I don't think I filed was. Now I am worried. Knowing how these people are, and that they are helping, some of them, to instigate some of this stuff that is going down, it's pretty scary.

At this stage, I should probably stop and just leave the reports alone, but I can't do. However there is probably a right way and a wrong way of doing this. Based on advise my records should only be filed or updated with them in writing. No updates over the phone and when possible, try to have a lawyer look it over. However since the system is corrupt and too many of these lawyers are themselves parts of the citizen snitch programs, this is harder and harder to do.

So he said I better speak to the Central ARU, based on that it's like, oh boy. (You know it's not good.) So the call was transferred back to the main reception area, you know where they take the calls when they want to put you off. The officer there again advised that the central ARU was the place to have the files updated, but that she could not transfer me there, that they would have to take my information down and have an officer call me. If you recall that is how I wound up with officer Broker in the first place, so do not pass go, and do not collect 100 dollars, or whatever the amount is that these people have playing on this monopoly that has become part of my life.

Now I am way happier if I don't have to deal with them if I can. Simply because they actually track who is calling into their stations and how often the calls are coming in. Eg. If you are a senior and you call them so many times in a month each month, then they keep track of that, and if you call them too much they can recommend that someone come out and see you. (Stuff you find out online.)

So they make it impossible to resolve your situation without calling them several times, but then when you do, you get the run around. They have a nice system going. Do you think if the Mafia did this, they would be out of business? They would be in full swing right now. Maybe that's what the Mafia should do or did, get a bunch of their guys and gals to join the force, start running the show. Wouldn't be any worst. (Maybe that's what Tony Saprano will do?)

So that was the day. That ate up 2 hrs. (Including typing up this report.) Somebody has to do it. The only way that I was able to come this far, was by some of the records that Mark M. Rich (http://www.rich-essence.com/) left behind, before he stopped updating his site. I have never met Rich, don't know what happened to him, and I hope somehow he got out, but at least his
records are there.

Targets the people are the ones doing this. It's like having the Mafia put a hit out on you, and trying to get them to take the hit off, and getting the run around. They have no desire to correct this information. To see that this information gets updated, or anything else. In fact it's in their best interest, budget wise, and corrupt system wise, to see that targets stay under covert investigation.

There is no time limit for how long they can mess with your life, or what they can do behind your back. It is no secret, that these people will go behind your back, and spread slander about you. They will do it to your friends, family, business clients and anyone that you know. They will try to make sure that you are jobless, homeless, not able to take care of yourself, and you have to be a fighter and do everything that you can do, to get your life back.

I think Rich described it best, when he said that this is an evil that comes out, and has been here before, like with the Salem Witch Trials and other things in history. Most of us still have no clue why we are being investigated or followed around, and all we know is that the authorities of our countries are doing this. Amnesty and all those great human rights organisations and
establishments that you hear about will not touch this, and most lawyers will not touch with with good reason. You could end up without a country and improperly disbarred, like the lawyer in American who now lives in Israel, cause she tried to go up against the CIA for shipping in drugs to black communities.

The world is a very corrupt place. Understanding of this, does not come with just the mind. To understand this level of corruption, it's something that you have to feel and experience, but those of us who have, can tell you what it's all about.

So my struggle continues. I have a force who it would seem that getting these police reports updated and corrected, is not seemingly in their best interest. One of my reports that I dropped off last week seems to have mysteriously dropped off of the face of the earth, and now I hear news of an investigation that was done in February, for a report that I am pretty sure that I didn't file. I have to see the Freedom of information records first, but that would mean another trip to my favorites in blue. Maybe just have the lawyers office fax it over, or just maybe they
can just find the report, and update it.

Durham’s tool to fight crime: You (More Snitches Coming)

http://metronews.ca/uploadedFiles/PDFs/20070411_toronto.pdf

Durham’s tool tofight crime: You (More Snitches Coming)

[quote]If you live in Durham Region and rowdy youths hang out in your neighbourhood, the police want to hear about it. Encouraging citizens to become their “eyes and ears” to solve problems and prevent crime is one element of a new three-year strategic plan endorsed by the police services board yesterday. But it will be a while before the plan, whose ultimate goal is a safer community, reaches the streets.

It’s part of a major transformation for the Durham police service over the next five to 10 years, Supt. Greg Mills told the board — one that will involve retraining and restructuring at every level to change the focus from reacting to crime to preventing it.

Four key areas will be targeted: youth, road safety, violence and property crime. For example, a group of “loud, disrespectful youths behaving in an anti-social manner” could be a precursor to gang activity, Mills explained. “We’re asking people to let the police know about problems like disorderly conduct that hasn’t risen to the level of a criminal act. If they’re out for a stroll, they will be our eyes and ears.” Citizens aren’t being asked to become vigilantes, just to work with police.[/quote] pg3.

Apparently the snitching program is working so well in some cities that they are not expanding it. That's right Durham region is going to get their own version of this monster that Toronto and other cities have in place currently Citizens, Suburban Spies as I like to call them are now also going to be recruited in Durham, the program will start to recruit over the next 3 years, but it's a long term 5-10 year plan. If we can get this sort of concentration in Toronto, then imagine the sort of concentration a much smaller venue like Durham is going to have?

We have snitches at ever corner in Toronto, I am not sure how long this has been ongoing, but again we have at least based on what I am seeing on the subway, over 85% concentration. That is a light figure, now again as a target, I am not sure if I am just seeing a higher concentration.
Apparently traditional policing methods are not working, the money and the budget is not there to do all the things that the police want to do or need to do, so they are getting the citizens to come out and lend a hand. On paper this sounds great. I mean even as a target, when I read it, it sounds great, but in reality it's a nightmare. You have people that are becoming citizen vigilantes. They seem to be recruiting from not the smartest elements in society, and it's a nightmare the stuff these people are doing.

First of all, the program is suppose to help keep an eye on things, but so far all it seems to be doing is finally giving racists, fanatics, and other yahoo's, the capacity and a forum for their hatred. The people joining these programs are the neighbourhood busy bodies that the world could do without, the people who think any foreigner looks funny, and should be watched, the people who have no power in their lives to begin with and finally think this will be a way to have some purpose in their lives, and then there are the others who just have too much time on their hands. You also get the other people who just want to snub their noses at others, who would not be noticed by anyone else outside of these programs. The losers of society have found an outlet.
Then you have the other half. The honest citizens of society who want to make the world a better place. The odd few who mistakenly really think that by going along with these programs they are going to make their communities safer.

These programs are suppose to be designed to make the world a better place, on paper they are and they sound great, but the reality that I am seeing is something quite different. Communities policing communities, everyone getting involved, becoming empowered after feeling powerless for so long, I mean it had me drooling for awhile, before I did a double take and said, wait a second, aren't these very same programs the ones that have me of all people being followed around the city and harassed? Aren't these the same programs that have me being tracked and harassed in my very home? Then I realised why yes they are, and something in the system has gone terribly wrong. Except unlike with other programs, there does not seem to be anyone to turn to get this mess sorted out.

The police will not look into complaints about targeting by these sorts of programs, and apparently to keep these sorts of programs quite in some cities, they have gone so far as to make the people being targeted by these programs look crazy if they try to complain about them or get assistance for them, in most cases they just go on to further slander the reputation of others. Something is not right and not working in a system that would have someone like me targeted. I can tell you this, you don't have to believe me or take me at my word, but just wait till it's your turn, or till this monster gets so far out of hand that it can't be controlled, if it's already not so far out of hand.

These programs on paper start off sounding so good. Citizen volunteers working with the police, keeping an eye and ear on things. Then you have the real monster of the program, which has turned my city into a Statsi State. So many people are a part of these programs that we have I am pretty sure, numbers greater than the Statsi had, meaning where they had 1 to 64. I think we have something like 1 to 15 or 1 to 25, but we have a lot of these snitches in a city of only about 5 million. The East Germans had about 16 million in their population and they controlled every body with just 91,000-400,000 snitches. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi[quote]it was estimated that 91,000 full-time employees and 300,000 informants were employed by the Stasi. [/quote]

We have concentrations that are higher than this ratio, based on what I am seeing. This thing that started out so great on paper has become a run away freight train. With just our public servants and unions that are taking part in this it's a lot, but then you have all the companies, private security, police, snitches, etc. It's a huge monster that this has become.
The other thing is though this is working for some members of society, I have seen a great deal of evidence to suggest that these programs are racially targeting individuals, going after more females than males, and targeting the people who could actually make the society a better place. They do not really seem to be cutting down on the major problems that we are having in society, but they are creating quick solutions. These types of programs are giving people a false sense of security, and empowerment, and I am not sure that they are truly targeting the problems that need to be targeted.

There are so many vigilante yahoo's in these programs. This seems to have given some people something to do with their lives, and not necessarily something better. There are many people that function well under systems like these and the Stasi system, and of course there are others that do not. The social sociopaths seem to function very well under these types of systems. The problem is these types of systems are coming into play in many parts of the world, and they seem to be set in place to herold in a global system of dominance, a New World Order if you will, that will be used to control the masses. Think Global, act local, and yet the dissenting voices that we should be hearing are continually being shut down, and closed off. More people and awareness should be out there about these sorts of programs so people can say if they want their city to become a snitch state or not, but just like the North American Union, these program seem to just slipped by the radars, and have now taken over society, and I am not sure what we can do to turn this system around, since so many people seem to function well under these sorts of systems while others do not.

Ship Shape Spies.

Big improvement on the S.S. Suburban Spies.

Ok there has been some kind of massive over haul with the way things are being run, now they actually look like someone owns them. As we all know someone does own them, the government and they are snitching and spying for the state, so the least the state could do was dress them up and trick them out appropriately.

Ok I am not sure for the reason for the changes, I am guessing, because they were making themselves so obvious that they could be seen from space, hello.

Also I was noticing this poser guy, that is the only word for him. He was dressed in like over 30ish rap gear, which so did not suit him, and then he was all like covering his mouth and doing nothing else, expecting people to signal back, it was so obvious he was being a poser. Even I was like, I don't know you. I saw him again this week, and his posing was doing way better, he was sitting back and just observing them. That's the way you learn. I don't know what he was thinking. He still had the horrible over 30ish rap looking outfit. It just so doesn't work. Not sure what his deal is. Anyways, changes that I have noticed.

Better postures, now they actually look like a suburban spy force, rather than people who crawled out of bed with nothing better to do, and decided to collect government spy-fare cheques. Or do their delinquent state duties. Outfits. I have not seen any really tragic outfits that needed mentioning. Again I haven't seen anything amazing this week, but again, at least they look like someone owns them now.

Signalling. For all you targets out there, at least the ones who live in my city. This week the spy force totally went underground with the signalling. NO more crazy, outlandish on watch eye signals. They have actually opened up a dictionary and learnt the word subtlety. Thank God. It was so bad, their signalling. I didn't want to totally diss them at the time, but big improvement. Eg. This Asian guy on the train, did the pretending to be sleeping thing, but he's really good at it. He only opens his eyes to see who else has come on board and to give directional signals. He was really good at what he was doing, same with the woman who was his cohort. I would say he was the conductor of the moment on that train car. They were doing this really cool back to back and face to face thing, which really works, good for them, bad for us targets. Of course I had to have some fun with it, but he really did a good job.

So they really are being way more subtle, if you want to see them in action, you are going to have to do what the poser guy is doing and just observe them. They have dramatically improved. So targets be more alert.

They also now are better at coordinating the train arrival with getting everyone in position on the platform, so that is way better. Can I ask anyone, why they still feel a need to come and sit with me? Do I look lonely to you? Really. Do your spy thing, but stay away from me. You still get the odd few who have not opened the dictionary to learn the word subtlety.
So today at lunch it was funny. Cause it was Easter Sunday right the area that I lunch in, the washrooms were closed right, so as they tried to do their usual pretending to go to the bathroom, it was funny to watch spy after spy, slam into the closed door. The looks on their faces.

Then now when they walk past me to stalk me at lunch, instead of walking over to try to see what I am eating and doing, they actually are trying to be pretending to be not spying, but it's still so obvious to me. After spending the last nine months of my life openly being stalked by them, tortured by them, and having my life invaded to such a unspeakable violating degree, it's not likely that I would forget them.

Our society is in trouble though. If the numbers that I am seeing on the train are any indication we are in such trouble. I mean seriously, on the train I am seeing well over 85% taking part in this. That is being modest. Now I don't know if I am seeing more of a concentration of this cause I am a target, but remember what I use to do is I would go from car to car to check, and I would walk from the front to the back or whatever, and each car was the same.

I can tell you I work in an small office of under 50 and everyone but me is taking part in this. Now I don't know if they have been inducted since I started working there, but I don't think so. They have been put on alert however. Yeah I'm nutty. Sure.

I can also tell you, I have seen this in other things, eg. People are so use to the signalling and signing that they do it on camera in some cases. I don't want to point out the examples, because things go missing too easily in cyberspace. However I don't think that the numbers I am seeing taking part in this are wrong.

It's like a cult. The people that are in it, can't see that anything is wrong, or that they are a part of something bad. Many of them, not all of them, because some people don't want to go along with this. Like the ones who died trying to leave this, or became socially annexed. Remember this is running from top to bottom in our society. It has been for some time. More than likely decades in one form or another. I spent years on the planet, and I had no idea. I spent eight years or more, being a target of this, and I had no idea, till last summer.

From what I have read and researched, I fully believe that this is what is causing a lot of the workplace mobbing and suicides that we are seeing. It's also causing people like me who don't figure this out in time to become jobless, homeless, forced suicides, mass slaughter, institutionalisation, or jail.

I don't see how this is getting stopped. Eg. A month or so back, I saw a guy on the train, he was like mentally ill or something, it was kind of like obvious. They were watching him right. That was then. Today I saw him again. He looked more together, but more importantly, he was signalling. Now I wasn't absolutely sure at first, but I am pretty sure, more importantly, when he got off the train, no spotters were following him that I could see. That means he is like one of them now. That's creepy.

Did anyone see those alien movies where they take over the planet, like body snatchers or something? Just where a few people see the truth and realise what is going on, and there is no way to get the truth out. I can not be the first person to have noticed this, but our media can't or won't talk about it. The agencies that should be protecting us are not, or they are owned or influenced by the people that we are trying to seek protection from. I won't even go over my CHRC (Canadian Human Rights Commission) complaint, that is going nowhere fast. I faxed it so many times, and each time, they either didn't get it, or oh there is now a page missing, or oh we think there were two files opened. We can't use everything in the complaint. Just like all the other people before me have found. It's just irritating. Where is justice to be found?

Anyways if you do have a spy force that is going to take over the planet someday, at least they won't all look like tragic fashion victims, who can't coordinate simple signalling, or who don't know the meaning of subtlety. On the other hand, the planet is going to be taken over by a spy force, the people controlling the people. I never understood this, mental slavery. It's the worst kind, when you don't know that you are bound. There are no bonds so many do not know that they are bound. The ones that do, they can't get free. It's like finding out too late that you married into the mob, or a cult or an abusive person with the wrong connections. You find that you can't leave.

The things is if they could find a way to pull it together, before the whole world is snitching they could maybe get out of this, but they don't. Like I use to wonder why the slaves did not ban together and just rush those slave masters and get free. It's cause slavery is more than physical bonds. It's mental. It's like you have an elephant right. As a baby, what they do is they chain it with a really strong chain, well it tries to get free right, like any sane thinking person or creature would try to do, well it can't cause it's only little right. Well as it grows, it can totally get itself free if it wanted to, cause it grows strong, but even if they use a rope to tie the elephant with, it won't try to escape, because it's learnt that it can't. It's a total myth, but the elephant has been bound mentally as well as physically, and even though it could easily now throw off the physical bonds, it can't throw off the mental bonds.

It's the same for people. You get them when they are young enough or naive enough and you enslave them, physically or even just mentally and then after awhile even if they could get free they stop trying, they think they can't. But it's a myth, yet so many can't get their minds around it, and so the system stays in place. It's really bad, because over here we are taught how democratic we are and how free we are, and it's a real wake up call, to realise that this is going on in society, and with such numbers of people, how could they all be taken in like this? I know over here we are really polite and stuff, and if the government asked, most of us would try to help out, cause that's the kind of people we are, and many are not seeing the dark side of this. They either don't know the truth or just don't care. Just like Germany. I mean that whole thing, must have given them back such a sense of community, belongingness and togetherness, that they just over looked the fact that they were sending their neighbours the Jews off to death or concentration camps. What lies did they tell themselves to get by? Or did they just have a completely separate reality? I don't really know, I can't try to really exhume that part of history, and dissect it, but I think what we are coming upon is very close and similar.

So how are people going to see the truth? I didn't. I know this signalling crap has been going on since I was in college, and I am sure even before them, but I just could not have wrapped my mind around this. I mean we are taught that only the Russians and Chinese and Germans spied on their citizens and had them being citizen spies. We were taught that we were just not like that, but that was a lie. We were exactly like that too. It was just a lie, but I bought it, hook line and sinker, like so many others in society. Which also makes me wonder what else we were lied to about? When you start reading about history and things that happened, things that never made the history books, you see the same patterns of repression, and the same periods in history. Many of them passed and sanity came back once more, and ofcourse we can all hope that this is all one more such time, but what seems to be happening seems to be on a much wider scale, and I am not sure there will be a period of sanity again.

I grow hopeful when I think of people like Rosie O'Donnell and saying the truth no matter what it's going to cost her. It's funny America is suppose to be free speech and stuff, but I see death threats to Rosie, and all these other hateful, and character assassination messages and they are so unnecessary. I mean she has a right to ask questions, questions that some people want answers to. I mean if the US government can come up with Operation Northwoods, the sister plan of 9/11, then why not 9/11? The US government has in the past, made plans to mass murder it's citizens with terrorist actions and then blame it on others. Hijacking of planes, dead people in many cities, if they planned it once, why not a second time? It's like the wife who finds out that her husband once planned to have her killed, in a skiing accident so that he could get his hands on her inheritance. Then 10 years later she gets killed in a skiing accident, and he get's his hands on her inheritance, but everyone is going, he would never do that. Yet they have the proof that he would do that, cause he planned it before. Anyways I am not going to fault people for wanting to think well of their government, but just wake up and have a slightly opened mind. It will break your heart, and destroy you if it's true, but so will living with lies in time.

I guess that is also true with the suburban spies, some have seen the truth and the truth has set them free in some ways, but it's probably making them miserable in others. Simply put, ignorance is bliss. I am seeing the dark side of this, thank God. If I wasn't I might think it was cool, or suave to be a Suburban Spy, these people get to play at this, and I have to fight for my survival. Well really we all do, cause the truth is not very pretty, and I feel bad for the ones who finally start to understand what God they are truly serving.

To the victor.

How will history view this time? To the victor goes the spoils, and apparently their version of history. I am wondering how this time period will be written? I watched Rosie Odonnell get dissed yesterday because she spoke the truth. I always grew up thinking that we were the good guys, the democratic ones. However now I see our western society on the brink of yet another war. I have to wonder if this is how the German people felt as Hitler invaded country after country? I have seen two wars in recent times. One that was definitely not necessary, and which caused the destruction of 10's of thousands of lives and a country. A country that held riches that were coveted, by a greedy malignant hunger that needs to be fed. A war called unjust by some and illegal by others like the UN, and yet the aggression continues.

In the last war we had Hitler, Mussolini, Hirohito on the one hand, and now we have the US, UK and allies on the other. We just went out of our way to try to provoke a war that can and will have dire consequences if it happens and yet the aggression continues. Purposely Provoked by war-hungry trouble makers. Yet we are silent. How will history remember this time? The same as now. For now there are voices who would stand up in opposition to this, and say that it is wrong, while there are other who will see it as duly justified and necessary.

How will history remember this time? The same as now. To the victor will go the spoils, and the writing of the history books. History is not necessarily about the truth. It's about power and conquest, with little bits of truth shining through here and there. Most people seem to have trouble understanding that there is a difference between loyalty and mindless conformity. You can be loyal to a person or a place without mindless conformity, or not going along with every dictate issued and that's what most people are doing. Individuality and independent thought are not taught in the schools. All they are teaching the children are to be mindless conformists, who are not capable of independent thoughts or actions. They teach them to learn to follow orders and obey. These are not the traits that made up our many and more memorable leaders of the past. They were people who could think independently. They could strategies. They could perform the most complex of mathematical equations, and create new mysteries or schools of thought. They were creators not destroyers. They could think and they were charismatic inside and out. Don't get me wrong, history also has many great fools that pass for leaders when better people were not available, or could not be called forth, but I like to think that the truly remarkable ones, the ones that we remember most, had something special and unique.

How will history remember us? To the victor will go the spoils.

To serve and protect 2.

3. Baltimore Police Arrest, Handcuff 7-Year-Old Boy for Riding Bike http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,259302,00.html
Baltimore Police Arrest, Handcuff 7-Year-Old Boy for Riding Bike on Sidewalk
Saturday , March 17, 2007

[quote]BALTIMORE — Police arrested a 7-year-old boy, handcuffed him and hauled him down to the station house on a charge of riding a motorized dirt bike on a sidewalk.
Then, according to his mother, Gerard Mungo Jr. was handcuffed to a bench and interrogated before being released to his parents.
"They scared me," Gerard told The Baltimore Examiner before breaking down in tears.
Mayor Sheila Dixon apologized Friday for the arrest, and police commissioner Leonard Hamm said it would be investigated internally.
The arrest came after an officer saw Gerard riding his dirt bike on the sidewalk in east Baltimore on Tuesday, police spokesman Matt Jablow said. Hamm, citing the internal probe, declined to discuss how the rest of the incident unfolded.
Kikisa Dinkins said her son was sitting on the bike with the motor off on the sidewalk when an officer grabbed him by the collar and pulled him off.
"I told them to let go of my baby," Dinkins said. "Since when do you pull a 7-year-old child by his neck and drag him?"
Dinkins said she called for a police supervisor to intervene, but the confrontation continued to escalate after the supervisor arrived.
"They started yelling at him, 'Do you know what you did wrong, son?'" Dinkins said. "He was so scared he ran upstairs."
Police arrested Gerard and confiscated the bike.
Dinkins said officers fingerprinted him and took his mug shot. Hamm could not confirm that and said those actions would not have been normal procedure in a non-felony case.
Dinkins said the arrest scarred her son. "This has changed his life," she said. "He'll never be the same."
The Police Department's zero-tolerance arrest policy—begun under former Mayor Martin O'Malley, who is now Maryland's governor—has drawn complaints that such arrests occur most often in poor, black neighborhoods. Gerard is black.
Hamm said the officer had the option of talking with a parent or confiscating the bike. He said that although the city is concerned about nuisance dirt bikes, the arrest "was not consistent with my philosophy of trying to solve problems in the neighborhoods."
The mayor, who appeared Friday with Hamm, said she also planned to look into the case.
"It is clear to me that the arrest was wrong, that the officers on the scene should not have arrested the child, and on behalf of the City of Baltimore I apologize to the boy and his parents," Dixon said.[/quote]


What is wrong with this picture? You know what nothing. Nothing until some people wake up and realise that something is really wrong here. Where do you get off doing this to a seven year old child? I guess you want to get these young black males use to the jail system really early on, and on the least charge. Couldn't you wait till he was at least ten years old. No
come on now, you see some kid sitting outside apparently his own home, on a bike, with the motor off.

You talk to the child, don't come grab him, like he's some criminal. Then continue to ruff him up, and then when your supervisor comes over, who should know better, the same continues. Then while the mother cries cause you are ruffing up her seven year old child, you blatently ignore it, and take the child to jail, where you interigate him, and finger print him, and take his mug shot. Are you out of your minds? Of course not, this is every day behaviour for you, and until these people wake up and stand up, it will continue to be.

Some days I can hardly believe the stories that I am hearing, but why should I not. Until someone(s) stand up, then these sorts of practices will just continue.

Now I wonder if they offered to make him a part of the community snitching programs, as a condition for his release as they do so many other young black males?

This was obhorant behaviour and for so many different reasons. These officers of the law should know better. They should be out getting real criminals, not children sitting on bikes in front of their own homes with the motor off.

To serve and protect?

Can you keep a secret? Everyone else can.

Can you keep a secret?

Of course you can. If you can have hundreds of thousands of people taking part in some Stasi like State program and keeping their mouths shut, then you can get people to keep quite about just about anything.

People always say that if 9-11 happened and it was done by the US government, someone would have said something or it would have been in the papers, but why would it be?
I have been here in the world for awhile, and did I know anything about these suburban spy programs? No. You have millions of people in these types of programs around the world, keeping the secret, so then why does anyone think someone would spill the beans about 9/11 if they knew?

Compared to 9/11 these spy programs are small fry. If people can keep their mouths shut about these programs, then the trusted ones who would have been let in on the 9/11 secret, would keep that a secret for sure.

I mean if peoples friends, family, etc can all be made to keep their mouths shut for fear of the state over something like a community spy program, then you bet your assets they can be made to keep quite about 9/11, same with our media, etc.

The only thing you can do about 9/11 is take a look at the inconsequential of that time period, that add up to a big consequential, like who cancelled flights, who's flights left days earlier than planned to avoid flying on 9/11

An aeroplane fire is allegedly strong enough and destructive enough to destroy all the people on board, take down 3 buildings, but the wreckage from that leaves the passport of the sleeper terrorist agents in tack? Yeah I like fairy tales as much as the next person, but even I would have to ask some questions about this fairy tale, and the crappy ending that went with it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gingerbread_(Buffy_episode)

These same supposed terrorists who allegedly knew they were not coming back, still packed suitcases, that they left in parked cars for people to conviently find.

People can be lied to, but only if they want to be. I knew there was something going on, I knew that everyone around me were taking part in something. I thought it was something simple, I never dreamed something like this could be going on in the world, much less in my world, and happening to me, but it was. I could never have believed that so many people could keep their mouths shut about something so relevant and encompassing, that was important for me to know, for so long but they did, remorselessly.

It was my own need and perseverance and desire to learn the truth that finally lead me to a place where I have some of the facts about the unbelievable stuff that was happening in my life, that so many people knew about but me. I knew I would have to prepare myself for some betrayal when the truth finally came out, how much I never knew.

If you want to know the truth, you can find it, but be prepared to be hurt, and to feel betrayed, and you might not like what you find, but no one ever said the truth would be pretty. Ever hear that saying, the truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable. Well the truth is, it might set you free, but it might continue to make you miserable.

People can keep secrets, don't fool yourselves, and sometimes it's the people you think you should be able to trust the most, those are the ones that betray you, but you know what if you can deal with that and get past it, the truth is there in all it's refined glory.

Can you keep a secret? Everyone else sure can. If you want the truth about anything, you are going to have to go and find it out for yourself, and many people are not going to make it easy for you. It can be done though.

The truth, but their version.

Some of the truth must be getting close to coming out.

I say that because the government would never have allowed the following radio show to get through, so they allowed this to get on the air, with them still fully at the helm.

http://www.multistalkervictims.org/other/audio/syrett1.mp3

It's a victory in some ways, and a deception in others. I realise that this is what they consistently do, they will only allow their version of the truth out when the time comes, with them still fully at the helm.

Most targets will never understand the difference. The few like Mark M. Rich who have not been heard from for some time who did will probably not be doing the speaking engagements.
The truth is so much stranger than fiction. I don't know how long this has been going on, in my life I can guess, in the lives of others I have no idea.

I woke up to a world a few months back, where neighbours, family, co-workers, friends, were all aware of and taking part in the unspeakable. Where everyone around me knew something that pertained to my life, and my well being but me.

Where people that I should have been able to trust were the very ones that were betraying me, and knowingly or unknowingly helping in what could have been my destruction.
I have been trying like most to understand not only what is happening, how long it's been happening, but how it could be happening. How can so many people be taking part in something like this and no whistles getting blown, no one coming forward to grab that Pulitzer prize winning story.

Just like Germany of WWII, there were stories of what was happening to the Jews making there way out, there were stories of the Camps and what was really going on at the camps, but people either did not want to hear, believe or care.

I have read some history accounts that say that the many of the German people thought that this was a good time in history for them. I guess to the stage where Hitler restored the country after the devastation that had happened to it after WWI, I guess to that extent it was.
The rest has always been hard to fathom or imagine. I always asked the why, and the hows. I could never understand how people could sit back and allow such things to happen.
However if I think about it in another context. I am in a country that recently realised that the human rights of prisoners being held on security certificates were wrong and that imprisoning people without charges was a human rights violation. I for months, when I finally did clue into the fact that this was happening, still did nothing. I mean outside of contemplation of signing the petitions, I was not outside of the jails with my signs in hand.

I have also sat back and watched America hold two concentration camps, where thousands of peoples rights have been violated, I have watched this in an almost sleep like state for the last 5 years, not fully understanding the true meaning of this till now. I think my own experience has allowed me to understand this better, but not as fully as I would like.

I know that over the last eight years or so, I have spent a great deal of time focused on how to stop the harassment in my own life, I know that is has distracted me enough so that this has been a primary focus, so much so to the often exclusion of other things happening in my own life and the lives of others, so much so that it even distracted me to what the truth of my own circumstances were.

This whole thing has given me a lot of perspective and made me ask a lot of questions about my own actions. Why am I not writing to the UN about the prison camps and asking them to provide sanctions until the prisoners are either charged with something or at least given the right to see a lawyer, till at least democracy is practiced in word and deed?

Why am I not out at rallies and protests, condemning the things that are happening and that have been happening? I mean outside of the online protests, there has not really been a whole lot of other protesting. Why was I not more fully aware of the full truth of what was happening to the homeless, or the poor? Why was I just not a lot more informed or aware? Why was I not making their issues my issues?

Don't get me wrong, I have always been a cause person, but most of my efforts focus on the suffering of the innocents in the world, who are too young to take care of themselves.
Still ignorance is no excuse. In high school and college I was far more cognizant of the things that were happening around me and fought bring awareness to the issues of the day, but somewhere along the lines, that had stopped, and I had just tuned out, or turned away, I am not sure which one.

I mean I don't think I really ever delved into the fact that the Concentration Camps were just that, concentration camps, where people are being held without charges, or the right to see lawyers. I keep thinking that eventually truth will win out, but it won't, not without the will of the people.

I keep thinking about how many homeless people have died, or are now in jail, and their cries that have gone unheard, unaided. I worry that their issues were not my issues, that more attention was not paid to their plight.

It's like living in a mindless apathetic bubble sometimes, we are aware of the suffering and the ills of the world, but we do not do anything about them. We are aware of so many, that we start to feel overwhelmed and I guess at some point that turns to apathy, and we just don't think that we can help or do anything about it. We forget as a people how truly powerful we can be and we let others take that power away from us. We forget that one person can make a difference. We forget that social change is possible, but it does not always happen over night and it can be painful and long endurance is needed, we no longer gear ourselves up for dealing with these struggles.

We forget that the price of eternal freedom, is eternal vigilance and so we have given up our rights and freedoms, we have become that which we fought so hard to not become, we have become red, spying on each other, the Russians pulled a fast one on us, when we thought they had lost they had really just won. The oldest trick in the book was played, the Trojan horse of the Russians and we fell for it. The Stasi and the KGB are now working for homeland security. Our sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, cousins, aunts, uncles, and friends are now spies for the state, and somehow we fell for it. We willingly let them do to us by deception what they could not have done by force, had we remained vigilant. Vigilance is the price and we have not paid it, and so our freedoms have go to let, and this will continue to happen, unless we wake up and press for change the way others have had to.

We have become lazy and weak willed. We want things to be easy, but history has shown us that is not always the case. To have the sort of society we want, we will have to fight for it, but we have gone so far of the beaten path, our values have become so corrupt. Britney or Paris slip and the world knows about it, but children are raped, beaten sold into slavery and no one even bats and eye or is even aware. We have been told and conditioned about where to place our focus and values and it's worked.

I don't know if this generation can pull themselves out of the mire that has become society, but I know that they have to try. They have become directionless, without focus, and there is no moral guidance or beacon that will give guidance. They have long rejected the truth for lies, and it looks like this trend will continue for some time.

Is there hope? Well there is always hope, that's what so neat and interesting about the human
race. The doom's day clock has been moved one step closer to midnight, but just as easily tomorrow, it could be moved two hands back, it's up to each of us to see that this happens. It's up to each of us in our own lives to take that power that we have and do what we can, we are capable and we are powerful beings, we can create change, we just have to believe that we can once again. We have to take the initiative to tune out the garbage, and tune in the pure unadulterated truth. We need to have that in our own lives, it's the only way we could ever become fulfilled, self actualised individuals in the first place. There was never an easy formula, and the things that they sell us that say otherwise are just lies. We really do have the power in our hands for change, we just have to wield it like a sword. We are in our own turns more powerful than we know, not only can we display that power in our own lives, but we can teach others to do the same, and that is part of the truth that they want us to forget, it's part of the reality that was always there, if we can just tune back into it, it's ours for the taking.

Rich, powerful, successful is not all it's cracked up to be, if we are to believe all the failed marriages, rehab trips, and sensational headlines, and yet we are told to strive for this, why would you strive for something where the end result is sure to be misery and the fall out that comes with it? We want to be happy, heck most people want to be happy, we want to have peace in our lives, but most people want that, we want to feel secure, we want to be fulfilled, most people want that, but honestly that things we have been feed and told, that will bring us that are just simply not the truth.

We have to wake up and try to realise this and understand this, we are being deceived and it's up to each of us, to wake up in our own turn, see the truth of this, and then wake up others if we can, but at least stay conscious in our own turn.

Change is possible, but it wont' be easy, you won't be necessarily popular, there will be struggles and you will wonder why you ever choose this path, but you will become better for it, on the inside you will become stronger and be a better person, one of strength and resilience who is better able to handle the garbage in garbage out that the world is throwing at you. You might even find that you find better things to tune into at the end of the day, like yourself, and you might just find that more rewarding, and fulfilling than other things that we have been told will entertain and fulfill us.

It's just something to think about.

Kimveer Gill revisited.

Kimveer Gill revisited. Nut job or Stalking Target?

http://www.thetrenchcoat.com/archives/1487-The-blogroll-on-Kimveer-Gill.html

For those with a short memory you might remember that Kimveer Gill was the young Montreal man who went on a shooting spree several months ago killing at least 1 person and wonding at least a dozen others.

Most people just wrote him off as a nut case who was into video games and mixed up fantasy with reality, a goth who hated society. For those of us who stopped to read some of his postings to gain clues to what might have happened, there is an angle that has not been discussed, that has not been talked about.

Here are some of his blog postings that I found really interesting.

Dated September 12, 2006

[quote]Stop Bullying

It?s not only the bully?s fault you know!!It?s the teachers and principals fault for turning a blind eye, just cuz it?s not their job. You fuckers are pathetic.It?s the police?s fault for not doing anything when people conplain (oops, my mistake, the cops are corrupt sons of whores,
so it?s not like they can do anything about it.)
FUCK THE POLICE
It?s society?s fault for acting like it?s normal for people to be assholes to each other. Society disgusts me.It?s everyone?s fault for being so apathetic towards fucking everything that doesn?t affect them personally. FUCK YOU
SOCIETY.[/quote]

It sounds like his bullying, which is what he called it, might have involved trying to get the police to do something, but it sounds like they not only did not do anything about the bullying, they also he ends with calling them corrupt. Why?

Not so outside the realm of what you might find in many other bullying cases, but here is something that is perticularly interesting.

[quote]I wonder why my household has been under surveillance by law enforcement for 6 years now? Makes no sense to me!!
Oh, you?re wondering how I know?lolBet you little monkeys areHey, assholes!!Everything everyone says or does against me is shown to me in my dreams, I see everything. You fucking monkeys.
God, you humans are so inferior.[/quote]

Now he might have been nuts, but it sounds like his bullying might have had other angles that
were never explored.

If Kilmeer Gill was under survellence and if he was for the last six years in a gang stalking like senario, going so far as to try to get help from the police without success, then the things that drove him to commit this terrible act might have been precipitated by what was happening to him. A self fulfilling prophecy so to speak.

Since reading this, I have often wondered if he was a target of this phenomenon, should his blog postings be taken with a grain of salt, or should they be given more weight than most people realise. Should the families of those injured or killed by him, be seeking restitution from the state if they infact did stalk and hound him till he did commit a terrible act.

The truth is we might never know. Though there are some clues on line, there are not enough for me to draw any firm conclusions one way or another, just to have enough of a suspicion that I would like to see examined. If this was happening to him, those around him would have been recruited, and his neighbours would have been spying on him, which could explain why
he suddenly stopped talking to certain people. (Ofcourse it could just be that he was moody.)

The more I know about gang stalking and the bits of his story that bleed through, lead me to believe that their are some questions that should be asked, but will we ever get answers? If I was the family of those people that were injured, or killed, I would ask some questions and dig for deeper answers. This might just be the story of a very deeply troubled young
man, but this on another level could be the story of a deeply troubled society that hounded and harassed a young man to the stage where he was willing to commit such horrendous actions.

It bears further examination. I just won't be the one looking deeper into this, but I invite others to, if you think that there could be more to the story.

Exposing Gang Stalking

*This was my response on the http://www.gangstalkingworld.com forum regarding exposing business that allow gang stalking.

Hi Anthony. I am not sure what you are talking about? There is no need for a list of places that allow gang stalking. Every place allows gang stalking. I bet you would be hard pressed to find one company, one government building, one tribunal board, one law office, that does not have this happening.

This is a system that most people are taking part in. From what I have seen we have the young, we have the old and everything in the middle taking part.

We have men and woman, trans-sexualas, bi-sexuals and one else in between.

We have black, white, Asian, Russian. Indian, African, Caribbean, European, Eastern European and anything else in between.

We have activist, dissidents, anarchists, communists, Taoists, Buddhists, Christian, Muslim, Hindus, Jews, Atheists, etc. We have anything that you can name taking part in this.

I just observed two teens probably 14 years old, doing there skate-boarding thing in the subway, while keeping watch on what was happening till reinforcements came and then they pretended to go off and do their own thing. The really insulting part was one was wearing an anarchist t-shirt. That use to mean something, now it does not.

I am sorry Anthony, but I don't have a clue as to what you mean. Who can we expose, except to say that an extremely large chunk of our population and other populations are taking part in this. I am not sure if you missed it, but this is happening all over the world, or soon will be. Most of the democratic countries and several Asian countries have already reported this. Community based policing which is actually based on a communistic system is alive and well, and thriving and it's starting to be used all over the world. The best you can do is to get countries that use to be free like Canada to talk about it openly, but they won't.

Just like in Red China, Red Russia, or Stasi Germany, people take part, and they keep an eye on the population. These countries have got everyone so scared of looking for terrorist over there, that we don't see that we have become Red over here. There is no one to expose but society. Remember this is a partner ship with corporations, companies, private citizens, snitches, private security, government, the police, civil workers, etc.

All you are seeing is the smaller picture. This is happening on a local level, but within companies it's being used to mob out the vocal, the whistle blowers, the overly moral. They are getting rid of them left right and center. That's why workplace mobbing is on the rise and will continue to be, till those dissenting voices are gone. Then you have whole entire cities that are spying on each other, keeping watch on each other. They are doing what the former East German's did and they are controlling the population with just a small fraction of society, Eg. The East Germans used 1 in 65 to control the country of 16 million. America wanted to have 1 million spies. Canada must have a number closer to what the Americans were going after, because our programs came forward unquestioned, unchallenged.

This is part of a larger system that is working towards, world government, one world government, NWO. So I really don't know what you mean. I mean it's great I guess you mean think global and act local, but most people are too afraid to break rank and talk about these programs. They feel a sense of community that has far too long been lacking in much of society, unfortunately that sense of community that they feel is false and it's a lie. It's being used to kill and destroy innocent people and innocent lives. It's being used to squash and destroy dissidence, it's being used to stifle the voices that would cry out in the wilderness and tell them to repent because what they are doing is wrong. These people will crucify and nail to the cross pretty much anyone they see as unfit.

They have become the terrorist that they have been tricked into fighting, and much like the former East Germany, I don't see how you are going to get this system changed. Since I noticed the gang stalking, do you know how many people of Eastern European decent, I have observed also taking a part in this? I am sure some must be from the old country and were probably on these types of programs in there countries, this also goes for people of other decent. This programing does not leave these people. They seem to like taking part in this, and it will more than likely spread, than not spread. All you need is a small portion of the population to control large sectors of society, and it's working, it's been working for I don't know how long. It's creepy and scary to wake up and realise that your city has turned into a Stasi State. I grew up with warnings of don't turn Red, you don't want to be Red, and now we are Red.

We are increasingly coming under communistic like conditions. The State is trying to tell people how to live, how to behave in society, and the people of these countries are falling in line like mindless sheep, or mindless zombies. They just go along with this and they don't think at all it's scary, it's frustrating, but it's where we are. So when you say that companies should be exposed, I am just simply not sure what you mean. They will work together to destroy a person, remove them, weed them from one community to the next, one apartment, house to the next, one job to the next. The idea is to destroy the person, emotionally, mentally and physically, and when that fails they try to employ other methods, just like the former Soviet Union.

Then they are also trying to put away the dissidents and the activists, mental institutions for the outspoken and the defiant. The homeless and the poor are being systematically eliminated right before our eyes in cities all around the world, but especially it seems in these free thinking Western countries. We have become like those we use to dread and fear. All they had to do was distract us with a new enemy over here, so that we would forget about our old nemesis over there. Now who is in bed with the former Heads of Stasi and KGB? American's that's who. Who is spying on who now? That's right Americans are. Who has to show id cards now? Americans do in some places as part of drills or regular practice for their safety, you understand. Who gets arrested for being outspoken and for not showing id on demand? Americans can and do. Who gets arrested for speaking out about the President, and the War? Americans do. We looked West and the East won, or whoever you want to phrase it, and for some reason people are too blind, deaf, or dumb to realise this, and so the horror just continues.

So it's a system that you would be exposing, a system that will not give justice, or fair play to those that are outside of the system. A system where you can just signal that someone is crazy, a terrorist, pedophile, undesirable, and they will get the short end of the legal system or tribunal hearing, depending on where they seek justice. They will get the short end of the police report, they will be treated like vagrants and vagabonds. It's happening all over, and it's all just part and parcel of a larger more insane game, that may well not end until the world is fully subdued.